An Interview With A Very Gifted Author
Welcome to another Still in the Storm Substack post and on a Tuesday no less.
Today, I have a special surprise for you. I had the incredible opportunity to interview one of my favorite Christian authors, Frank Viola, about his new book, The Untold Story of the New Testament Church: Revised and Expanded.
As many of you probably know from my writings on Still in the Storm, I’ve been on quite a spiritual journey the last few years following the loss of my father to cancer and then my job/career during covid.
I was at a crossroads but, thankfully I chose to press further into the Lord.
Roughly three (3) years ago, I came across Frank’s work and it was truly an answer to my prayers.
His books, podcasts, and masterclasses have gone a long way toward helping me navigate not only my crises but, also giving me a much greater revelation of Jesus Christ than I ever imagined.
If you desire to know the Lord more deeply, to pursue Him and His ultimate purpose then there is no living author that I could recommend more highly than Frank Viola.
I’m honored to have had the chance to talk him about his new book, which I strongly feel is going to have immense value to the body of Christ.
Enjoy the interview.
Introduce yourself to my audience: You’ve written many books since 2008. Tell us about your most important ones.
Thanks Mike. I’m someone who adores Jesus and writes books specifically for hungry and thirsty Christians who love Jesus also, but who know in their bones that “there must be more” to the Christian faith, to Jesus Christ, to the Bible, and to church.
Therefore, my books are NOT for non-Christians. Neither are they for people who are NOT interested in the deeper things of God. I say this because some authors think their books are for everyone.
That’s not the case with my work. I write for a very specific audience. Namely, Christians who are actively following Christ, but they want more. They want to know the Lord better and love Him more.
That said, my books can be divided up into Light and Shade.
“Light” are books containing the element of the sublime.
“Shade” are books containing a prophetic edge that challenges the status quo.
Readers can check out my entire book catalog at frankviola.org/books.
I’ve written over 20, but the most important are:
The Untold Story of the New Testament Church: Revised and Expanded – this volume just released and we will be talking about it throughout this interview. Early readers who know my work have called it my masterpiece. This book combines elements of Light and Shade.
Insurgence: Reclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom – this book is the climax and culmination of all of my works that came before it. It’s been called my signature book and a landmark on the kingdom of God. It belongs to the Shade category.
From Eternity to Here – this has been called my magnum opus. It belongs to the Light category.
God’s Favorite Place on Earth – this is my favorite book out of them all. It belongs to the Light category.
Other important books are 48 Laws of Spiritual Power, Jesus Manifesto, and Hang On, Let Go.
Here is my discography that contains all the titles along with free sample chapters.
Tell us about your two podcasts.
The Christ is All podcast includes conference messages on the deeper life in Christ, interviews, monologues and creative sketches. Thankfully, it has reached 2 million downloads.
The Insurgence Podcast discusses the radical implications of the explosive gospel of the kingdom. I have 7 conversation partners on the show, one of them was Michael Heiser.
The podcast has over 650,000 downloads to date. We are currently discussing every reference to the kingdom of God in the New Testament in chronological order—a thrilling project.
Both podcasts are for hungry Christians who want to go deeper in their walk with the Lord.
Your new book is called The Untold Story of the New Testament Church: Revised and Expanded. Give us a quick elevator pitch on what the book is about.
The acclaimed scholar F.F. Bruce famously said that reading the New Testament letters is like hearing one end of a phone conversation. My book reconstructs the other end so readers can understand virtually every word.
The book does this by seamlessly weaving the narrative of Acts with the Epistles, providing a free flowing story from Matthew to Revelation, but in chronological order and filling in all the details from our knowledge of first-century history.
While the book is a non fiction, some early readers said it reads like a motion picture on paper. And that was my goal.
The book has been endorsed and recommended by many esteemed scholars. Who are some of them and what have they said about the book?
I’m profoundly grateful that 20 high-voltage scholars have endorsed the book.
Craig Keener, the greatest New Testament scholar ever to breathe oxygen in my view, wrote the Foreword.
Here are a small sample of the endorsements.
“In The Untold Story of the New Testament Church: Revised and Expanded, Frank Viola brings context and background together, inviting us on a captivating journey through the birth and growth of the first-century church. With a reputation for captivating prose and heartfelt storytelling, Viola brings his unique perspective to reconstruct the events from Matthew to Revelation. The Untold Story offers a plausible chronological narrative that reveals the grand tapestry of God’s kingdom plan and brings the characters of the story to life.” (From the Foreword)
—Craig S. Keener, F. M. and Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical Studies at Asbury Theological Seminary
“This unique volume is full of documentation as well, showing the care that went into it. For pastors and all others interested in the unfolding of the New Testament, this book is a treasure to mine.”
—Darrell Bock, Executive Director for Cultural Engagement Hendricks Center Senior Research Professor of New Testament Studies
“With great erudition, Frank Viola has provided readers with a wonderful resource. It would be an understatement to say the breadth of research involved in this project is ‘impressive.’ Highly recommended.”
—Michael Licona, Ph.D., Professor of New Testament Studies, Houston Christian University
“Frank Viola performs an invaluable service for Christians today by centering this book on the story of the early church, what he calls “the community of the King.” The result is a highly readable (and well-researched) story of the New Testament church, a genuinely accessible biography of the church, that congregations and classrooms will find indispensable.”
—Joel B. Green, Senior Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Fuller Theological Seminary
“In this fascinating volume Frank Viola seeks to write a narrative history of the early church by examining the New Testament documents within their respective historical and chronological contexts. His conclusions are plausible and consistently interesting and insightful. This is an excellent resource for those seeking to understand authentic Christianity by listening to its earliest voices.”
—Mark L. Strauss, Ph.D., University Professor of New Testament, Bethel Seminary
"In one volume Frank Viola has recast the entire New Testament as a single readable narrative, but as supported by scholarly notation of the highest order. This single book is for the general reader, the pastor, and the academic. The Untold Story of the New Testament Church is an amazing accomplishment. I know of no book like it. Highly recommended."
—Paul Barnett, Ph.D., New Testament Scholar and Lecturer Emeritus, Moore College, Sydney; teaching fellow at Regent College, Vancouver
“Don’t be put off by the size of this book! Frank Viola uses the evidence from your Bible to tell the story of Jesus and the New Testament church as a single drama from beginning to end. Using the biblical accounts, he weaves a careful, readable chronology that (as the title asserts) has never been done before! The book’s length results from detailed footnotes by many New Testament scholars, who affirm the author’s research. In this way, both general Bible readers, as well as scholars, can appreciate an accessible, previously “untold story” of the New Testament church.”
—Reta Halteman Finger, professor emerita of New Testament at Eastern Mennonite University
“This is an enormously helpful survey of the history of the roughly thirty years from the ministry of Jesus to the end of the apostolic period, replete with comments on the significance of historical events for the faith of Jesus followers and with comments on secondary literature. Viola is both humble as he interacts with the research of numerous scholars, and bold as he presents a coherent narrative of God's revelation through Jesus Messiah and His earliest disciples and apostles. Readers of any level will benefit immensely from a careful reading of this study.”
—Eckhard Schnabel, Mary F. Rockefeller Emeritus Distinguished Professor of New Testament Studies at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.
“I know no other book like this. Written for everyday readers, it is accessible, engaging, and compelling—and yet it is meticulously researched with depth and breadth of learning, in conversation with leading scholars in the field. I highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to understand how the whole New Testament fits together—as history, theology, and mission.”
—Constantine R. Campbell, Professor and Research Director, Sydney College of Divinity
Many Christians, leaders, pastors, teachers, and students of the Bible are interested in theology. How does your book relate to theology?
There are two kinds of theology that dominate the Christian world. Systematic theology, which is the most common, and narrative theology.
Systematic theology attempts to organize religious beliefs into a coherent, logical system of doctrines.
It arranges theological concepts by topic and categories like God, humanity, sin, salvation, and the church.
By contrast, narrative theology focuses on understanding God and His kingdom primarily through story.
It seeks to understand God’s person, His work, and His ways through the overarching narrative of Scripture.
It focuses on the story of the Bible rather than emphasizing doctrinal statements and propositions.
Given its topical nature, systematic theology relies on reading the Bible through the lens of chapters and verses while narrative theology looks at the whole story chronologically.
My book is a work of narrative theology.
Let me give you and your readers an example of why I think this distinction is critical.
My sainted wife loves puzzles. She buys 500 piece puzzles and even 1,000 piece puzzles. And she always completes them.
But her major guide for completing the puzzle is the picture displayed on the box of the completed puzzle.
Now if you try assembling a puzzle without the image on the box, you’ll inevitably force pieces that don’t fit with one another.
And this is precisely why Reformed systematic theology, Arminian systematic theology, Anglican systematic theology, Baptist systematic theology, and Charismatic systematic theology all differ from one another.
In my view, a systematic theology should only be created after a narrative reading of Scripture in chronological order is secured. Else it’s guilty of the cut and paste approach to Bible study, which dominates the Christian world today.That is, cutting and pasting verses from the Bible together to build doctrines. When we learn “The Story” in chronological order, it hems us in and tethers us to the truth.
Give us some “aha” moments that you had while researching for the book.
There are so many that I’ve lost count. But here are a few:
*Paul’s thorn in the flesh. I make a strong case that Paul’s thorn was the ringleader of the Judaizers who dogged Paul’s steps everywhere he traveled to plant a church.
So Paul’s thorn was a “religious” man motivated by God’s enemy. This becomes clear in The Story. I cite a number of first-rate scholars in the book who agree with this conclusion after I presented it to them.
*Another is Paul’s message in Athens. The background is remarkable, yet little-known today.
My book opens the narrative up historically, unfolding where the altar of “the Unknown God” came from. The saga is riveting. And it’s a lesson on how to recontextualize the gospel to our current culture.*Another is that Paul trained workers in Ephesus just as Jesus trained workers in Galilee. (“Worker” is the term the New Testament uses for those who have traveling, itinerant ministries.)
The way Paul trained ministers of the gospel was essentially the same and for the same amount of time as that of Jesus.
The story behind it is captivating, and it holds valuable lessons on how Christian workers can be trained today for their ministries.
*Another is that in Matthew 9, Jesus exhorted His twelve apostles to pray that God would send out more workers for the harvest.
When you read the New Testament story chronologically, you see the answer to this prayer in bold relief.
Workers begin to emerge in Acts and the Epistles: Stephen, whose life was cut short. Paul of Tarsus. Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, and Titus, all of whom are pretty well known.
But the workers who aren’t so well known play a major part of The Story also.
For example, the workers that Paul trained like Aristarchus, Tychicus, and Epaphras were giants in the land. They come alive in The Story, and readers will fall in love with them just as I have.
*Another is how women dominate The Story. Jesus and Paul relied on women in their ministries. And the New Testament names them.
*Another is articulated in one of the final chapters. After the entire story of the first-century church is told chronologically, I make this statement:
“THE STORY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH is a glorious paradox. It’s a combination of unmatched wonder alongside a persistent train wreck. The saga is both exuberant and harrowing. It depicts the sublime within the malign.”
All throughout The Story, you find the sublime -- the numinous activity of the Holy Spirit that is beyond wonder.
But right alongside it, you have a constant train wreck.
The churches are in a constant state of falling apart. There is unrelenting opposition to the apostles, including Paul of Tarsus. And virtually all the letters in the NT were written by apostolic workers to churches that were in a first-class crisis. It’s the sublime within the malign.
This same principle holds true for all authentic churches today. It’s true for our own Christian lives. We find the Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, within the mess.
So The Story not only unlocks each of the 27 books of the New Testament, it also presents a fresh vision of church, of church planting, and of the Christian life that is about as rare today as hens’ teeth.
How does understanding “The Story” of the New Testament church help us to understand the epistles? That is, the letters of Paul, Peter, John, James, etc.
The book gives you the historical background behind each letter, so you understand where Paul, Peter, James, etc. are located when they write their epistles, what they were feeling, what they had just been through, and what they were specifically addressing and why.
For instance, Paul tells the Corinthians that when he came to Corinth, he was in fear and trembling. Why? The Story gives the answer.
And when you read the New Testament as a chronological narrative, three gospels begin to emerge:
There is the gospel of legalism that Paul combats in Galatians.
Then there is the gospel of libertinism that he combats in 1 Corinthians. James also addresses it in his letter.
And then there’s the true gospel, which is the gospel of the kingdom also called the gospel of grace and the gospel of Jesus Christ.The two counterfeit gospels – legalism and libertinism – were prevalent in the New Testament era, and they are still with us today.
The gospel of libertinism says, “We are under grace, so we can do whatever we want. God’s cool with it because God is love.”
The gospel of legalism says, “You have to work hard to make God happy and earn His favor.”
Legalists also believe that their personal convictions reflect God’s opinions, so if it’s wrong for them, it’s wrong for you.
Consequently, the libertine acts as if there is no God.
And the legalist acts as if she/he is God to everyone else.
As I argued in my book Insurgence, most legalists don’t realize they are legalistic, and most libertines don’t realize they have perverted God’s grace into license (to quote the book of Jude).
These two counterfeit gospels – legalism and libertinism – are at the root of most of the crises that Paul and the other apostles addressed in their epistles. Those distortions created all sorts of problems in the believing communities.
You see this clearly when you read the New Testament as a chronological narrative. The pattern keep repeating.
How did you manage to write the book so it’s easy to read yet at the same time it’s a work that is beneficial for scholars?
That wasn’t an easy mark to hit.
Essentially, I wrote the main narrative so a high school student could grasp it. The prose is simple and minimally adorned.
The footnotes are for those who are curious and will have questions while reading the narrative. They are also for the academically inclined, including scholars.
One of the endorsers described the book this way: “It will captivate ordinary readers and engage scholars without losing the average high school or college student. It is a gift.”
If that ends up being the experience of most readers, then I thank God for the ability.
Some of the endorsers said there is no book like your book. Is that really true? No one has reconstructed the entire New Testament story chronologically the way you have?
During my research, I only discovered two books that attempted the same thing that were written by scholars.
The first I found was Donald Guthrie’s book The Apostles, which sought to put together the entire story of the first-century church chronologically from Pentecost to Patmos.
Guthrie’s book was published in 1975 and has been out of print for many years. It’s a pioneering work, but it’s not detailed, there are no sources in it except for a short bibliography at the end, some of the scholarship is outdated, and the formatting isn’t the best.
The other book that sets out to do the same thing is Paul Barnett’s Bethlehem to Patmos. It was published in Australia in 1989, and in the USA in 1990 under the title Behind the Scenes of the New Testament.. The book was republished in 2013, but the content is virtually the same as the 1989 version.
As far as I know, these are the only two books written by scholars that seek to reconstruct the entire story of the early church similar to the way that I’ve done in this work.
I write the book I want to read myself but that doesn’t exist. If it already exists, the time, energy, effort and agony of writing a book just isn’t worth it.
So I stand on the shoulders of people like Barnett and Guthrie.
Interestingly, Barnett was one of my historical advisors on The Untold Story. He’s an amazing scholar, and he wrote a beautiful endorsement for the book.
He also said “there is no book like this.” Paul wrote me twice saying “I don’t know how you wrote this book!,” which was enormously humbling to me coming from him.
Barnett’s scholarly catalog on the first century church and Paul is massive.
Anyways, that was the reason why I decided to take on the mammoth task of reconstructing the entire saga of the first-century church afresh with full documentation.
What’s the best place for people to learn more about the book and get a copy?
The best place is TheUntoldStory.net. People just need to wait for it to redirect. Everything related to the book is on that page, including a Sneak Preview Sampler, interviews, and online bookstores where readers can get a copy at a discount (including bulk discount orders).
Do you know someone who could benefit from Still in the Storm?
If you find the information in these articles valuable, we would be grateful for your help to get it to those who could most benefit.
Just click the button below to share Still in the Storm with a friend!
Get notified when new posts go live!
Lastly, to be notified as soon as a new post is live subscribe to Still in the Storm by clicking the button below.